As to the counter argument you mention, it is indeed true that many peoples believe in all kinds of myths and historical falsifications. The argument on the comparison between the Exodus or Sinai events on the one hand and the Resurrection of Messiah Yeshua on the other hand can only be valued if one is really and honestly prepared to consider the historical evidence. It is always easy to ignore.

One of the strongest arguments for the truth of the Resurrection faith is that the Jewish authorities found no other means to deny it except by producing the story that Yeshua’s body was stolen by the disciples. If the Resurrection hadn’t occurred, however, they wouldn’t have faced the problem of how to deny it. In that case it would have been relatively easy for them, with the help of the Romans, to discover what happened and where the body really was. And after finding out they would have been able to show Yeshua’s dead body to the people, to effectively destroy all rumours about a resurrection.

But in fact the Jewish authorities helped to establish the evidence for the resurrection, because the asked Pontius Pilate to seal the tomb and to guard it for three days, to prevent all rumours beforehand. They didn’t succeed, and the best explanation of their failure is that the Resurrection really happened.

Interesting that you make the comparison between מתן תורה and the Resurrection of Yeshua, as both of these events are believed by their respective followers in a similar way.

For Judaism, and this is especially put forth by the Kuzari, the giving of the Torah, is proved by the fact that if, as it claims, it was given in sight of all the people, then were it not true, at least some people should speak up and contradict. And since this hasnt happened, at least there is nothing in the Tanakh that would indicate people to claim it to be a myth, they say that it holds true. The reasoning goes like this, ask your father, and his father and all the way back to Sinai.

For Christianity, a similar thing surrounds the Resurrection, whereof Paul says:

For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.

For Paul to make the claim of having 500 witnesses, of whom the greater part is still alive, he needs to be very sure of his case as, people could still consult them for their testimony.

Is it along these lines that you draw the comparison?

What would you do with the counter-argument that there are various examples of falsified myths that people believe in?

Blessings,

Daniel

The history of Yeshua, and of his rejection as Messiah, is part of the history of Israel and of Judaism. The nation of Israel formally rejected Yeshua as a candidate Messiah, and delivered him to the Romans to be killed. According to the historical testimony of the Apostles and the NT writings, however, Yeshua was resurrected from the dead. His resurrection was a clear sign from Heaven itself that he really is the Messiah, and that the Jewish nation passed a wrong verdict when it decided to reject him. Yeshua’s resurrection — that cannot be denied on historical grounds — does make very clear that Israel as a nation rejected a candidate Messiah that was accepted and confirmed by HaShem Himself. This again implies that at long date the Jewish nation will be compelled to revoke its verdict in its case against Yeshua. Historical facts can be denied for a while but not for ever.

To reject the historical truth of Yeshua’s resurrection thus almost equalizes the rejection of the historical events of the Exodus and Sinai. And if a person would be inclined to reject the claim of the historical truth of the resurrection, and of the Christian faith, he should equally be inclined to reject the claim of the historical truth of the Sinai event and the Exodus from Egypt, the historical claims of Judaism.

For these reasons alone — and apart from the theological seriousness of the sin of apostasy — it should be clear for a Christian who wants to convert to normative Judaism that he acts in an irrational and inconsistent manner. He rejects the evidence for the resurrection and yet accepts the evidence for the revelation on Mount Sinai. He accepts the historical miracles that occurred before Yeshua, and rejects the miracles connected with the person of Yeshua. Such partiality can never be a sound basis for religious faith. Therefore, his faith will probably be enitrely lost when he fully realizes the untenable and self-contradictory position he has moved himself into.

Tnx for your comment.

You wrote:

I observe from your blog that you are not practising Torah and Halakhah non-selectively; which implies that you reject Ribi Yehoshuas teachings about practising תורה and Halakhah non-selectively. The logical conclusion from our lexicon is that you are rejecting the Creator. To reject that conclusion you would have to state that the research of Scholars in leading universities are wrong, which would make you a non-scientific ignoramus.

First of all, as can be noted in various of my posts, I am not Jewish. And thus as anyone with some basic knowledge of Judaism knows, Im not commanded to keep the Torah to the same extent as is commanded of the Jewish people. This, in my opinion, makes your assertion flawed.

I browsed the website you referred to, and would like to point something out: theres no way that anyone who holds the belief that Yeshua is the Messiah (be it son of Joseph or David) will be accepted into Orthodox Judaism. This is just not possible, for to convert, means full acceptance of the Sages z”l, and any belief that is contary to theirs must be let go off (note that induction in this case is not a safe method, one Rabbi overseeing a conversion of a person that maintains belief in Yeshua does not mean that Orthodox Judaism approves of this, and again I stress: it doesnt). Knowing this, your assertion that one must observe the Halachah non-selectively brings you to the problem that this of necessity entails rejection of Yeshua as Messiah.

Kind regards and G’d bless you in your journey,

Daniel

So let’s study the logical reasoning you use. You say P -> Q
Lexicon:
P: Reject Yeshua.
Q: Reject Judaism
In logic the premise is very important. With a wrong premise you can prove anything. So let’s study the premise.

Our premise must be based on the research of Scholars in leading universities. If we want to know information about the historical Yeshua we should study what Historical Scholars in leading universities says. The Creator of this universe is intelligent and facts and historical evidence in this universe cannot possibly contradict Him.

His name was Ribi Yehoshua. Anyone educated in this field knows that the only sect of Judaism that had rabbis was the Pharisee and even the Christian NT described Ribi Yehoshua him as a rabbi. Parkes, Bagatti, Wilson, Charlesworth; all world-recognized authorities in this area leave no doubt that Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee, of the school of Hileil – who was also Pharisee. There is no serious dispute about that among scholars in the field. Ribi Yehoshua taught in “synagogues”; which were a strictly Pharisee institution.

The most prominent university professors in this field Prof. Elisha Qimron , author of the most authoritative treatise on 4Q MMT (a Dead Sea scroll), demonstrates that all three of the major sects (including the Pharisees) of first century Judaism followed both written and oral Torah (for definition: see “Mishpat” and “Halakhah” at Glossaries in the first page at the above website). This necessarily implies that the Pharisaic leader Ribi Yehoshua practised Torah.

Rejecting Ribi Yehoshuas teaching would therefore imply rejecting first century Judaism, which implies rejecting תורה including Halakhah. We both know that תורה (Torah) is the Instructions (Torah in Hebrew translates Instruction in English according to Etymology) of the Creator (it is written in Torah which we both believe is the words of the Creator; and it is possible to prove using logic).

Lexicon:
P: Rejecting Ribi Yehoshuas teachings about practising תורה and Halakhah non-selectively.
Q: Rejecting the Creator.
P-> Q

I observe from your blog that you are not practising Torah and Halakhah non-selectively; which implies that you reject Ribi Yehoshuas teachings about practising תורה and Halakhah non-selectively. The logical conclusion from our lexicon is that you are rejecting the Creator. To reject that conclusion you would have to state that the research of Scholars in leading universities are wrong, which would make you a non-scientific ignoramus.
So what is the solution for you not to reject the Creator; which I am sure you don’t want to do? Let’s solve it with logic! You don’t want to reject the Creator, that is: not Q.
P-> Q
not Q
Using a truth table gives the result: not P

The only solution for you to stop rejecting the Creator is to stop rejecting Ribi Yehoshuas teachings about practising תורה and Halakhah non-selectively. To follow Ribi Yehoshua the Messiah you need to learn how to practise Torah and Halakhah non-selectively; you do that by signing up in our Khavruta (Distance Study). You will find more information about this at http://www.netzarim.co.il ; click at the link “Non Jews” in our Netzarim Quarter (see the left panel). If you want follow Ribi Yehoshua by practising his Torah and Halakhah-teachings we will be more than glad to help and support you!

Finding the historical Jew, who was a Pharisee Ribi and following him brings you into Torah, which gives you a rich and meaningful life here on earth and great rewards in life after death (“heaven”)!

All the best,
Anders Branderud

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Comment #2

Hello again,
I wrote:
“P-> Q
not Q
Using a truth table gives the result: not P”

I am wrong about the last row in my quote.
We can only say that it is either P or not P.
To give an example:
If the radio is on, one can hear music.
But if one cannot hear music; we cannot know if the radio is on or not. E.g., maybe the news is on, the speaker is disconnected, etc.

Anyway. The following lexicon is true as I demonstrated in my last post.
Lexicon:
P: Rejecting Ribi Yehoshuas teachings about practising תורה and Halakhah non-selectively.
Q: Rejecting the Creator.
P-> Q
As long as P is true, then Q is true. Another lexicon is this:
R: Following Ribi Yehoshuas teachings about practising תורה and Halakhah non-selectively.
S: Following the Creator.
R -> S

It is true according to Torah that the person who follows Torah and Halakhah non-selectively follows the Creator (according to Torah which we both believe is the words of the Creator; and it is possible to prove using logic). The person who follows Torah selectively rejects mitzwot (commandments) of Torah. That is rejecting Torâh as an indivisible whole.

Be blessed when you practise Torah and it’s commandments!