Comments for Christian for Moses

Comment on Dealing with Contradictions by Messianic613

Messianic613 — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:21:30 +0000

I don’t want to be a kill-joy but the example taken from Genesis Rabba isn’t an example of a real contradiction. A real contradiction occurs if the same thing is both affirmed and denied at the same time and under the same respect. In the case of the Binding of Isaac the affirmation however was “yesterday” and the denial “today”. So there was no real contradiction, because of the difference in time. Abraham would have faced a real contradiction if he had been commanded: “Take now, thy son,..&c, and take not now, thy son,..&c”. If that — per impossibile, I would say — had happened Abraham no longer had been able to respond properly to the commandment, because of simply not knowing what to do.

It is an essential aspect of the flowing nature of time that things which are incompatible and contradictory to be actual at the same time, can be actual one after the other. If that weren’t possible there could be no movement or change.

Nevertheless, I enjoyed the post, because of the real problematic addressed by it, which is that we are not always able to harmonize Scripture.

Comment on Dealing with Contradictions by derek4messiah

derek4messiah — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:03:26 +0000

Daniel:

Beautiful words from Soloveitchik. Thank you for sharing.

Derek Leman

Comment on Dealing with Contradictions by Aaron

Aaron — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 00:39:48 +0000

Daniel, that was very inspiring. Thank you especially for sharing that quote. It is particularly comforting to realize that people have had to deal with tension and crisis in faith even as early as Abraham.

Comment on Question(s on)(-ing) the divinity of Jesus by christian4moses

christian4moses — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 16:38:13 +0000

Hi Ovadia, In that case I'd still suggest you read both sets of authors and in addition to this it might be an idea to read about the history of certain dogma's. I think - though havent read it yet myself - that J.N.D. Kelly's Early Christian Doctrines could be helpful in this regard. Blessings, Daniel

Comment on Question(s on)(-ing) the divinity of Jesus by Ovadia

Ovadia — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:19:54 +0000

I happen to have a supportive community that has wide range of views on the divinity issue and an official policy of no official policy on the topic. So endangering my status with a community isn't really much of a problem for me. I'm already thinking critically on the subject, I mean a year ago or so I wrote this

Comment on Tracing my spiritual journey by christian4moses

christian4moses — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:42:03 +0000

Judah

I personally also had a friend who went from Pentecostalism to Messianic Judaism, then to Judaism, to Noachidism and eventually Atheism. So I can relate to what you are saying.

As for your question I find Atheism appaling so dont really think Ill ever end up there. As for Agnosticism, in some cases I think its a cop-out but in other instances see a sort of humility in it. Nonetheless I think the God of Israel does not grant this kind of space in commitment to Him, perhaps in creed yes, but in deed no.

Jos

Thank you very much for your encouragement, you are a true friend:)

Derek

I didnt read anything by Wyschogrod or Boyarin (yet) but did read books written from that perspective and really liked them. Besides that I have several friends who are Modern-Orthodox and find their lifestyle coupled with their ideology very appealing.

You are probably right that in some instances I give precedence to a critical and rationalist approach over a mysterious/mystical approach. This is difficult to escape though, especially in the field Im taught; economics, where rationality is seen more or less as the only way to enlightenment. Its not like I deliberately choose this but this approach is intuitively more appealing.

A community is something I long for so I agree fully with that. And I think my drive towards Judaism is to an extent inspired by that; a desire for belonging.

Thanks again for your comment,

Daniel T

I think you are right to point out that theological questions will always remain hence the need to remain strong in our commitment. The only problem I have with this, is that commitment is to a great extent based on the theology you hold hence experiencing problems on one plane inevitably impacts the other.

Blessings,

Daniel

Comment on Interesting posts on the net by daniel

daniel — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 20:01:49 +0000

I am still waiting to hear from you about the one law controversy. What are your thoughts?

Comment on Tracing my spiritual journey by Daniel T.

Daniel T. — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:37:37 +0000

I am sorry, but I have to say something. I have jumped from one form form of fundamentalism to another as well. I am afraid that if historical Christianity and historical Judaism are problematic, a secular perspective is even more troublesome. Scholars use anthropological theories to question texts and compare them to other forms of human experience this being the case supernatural perspecives are out the window. I would suggest to think about the purposes of G-d and how he is revealed in the midst of the confusion. If Moshiach expressed the character of G-d then our focus should be on emulating him and expressing our life within the context of a Jewish community as he did. If not possible, then we need to consider what it means to be his disciple and how his message of teshuva and kedusha can be lived out anywhere we are at. The debates about theological issues will always be there, but if we focus on the practical application of G-d’s will though his Torah our understanding will grow and our commitment to him will be based on our relationship with him and his people, not the problems that can be raised with different thoological perspectives.

Comment on Tracing my spiritual journey by derek4messiah

derek4messiah — Mon, 05 Oct 2009 14:55:38 +0000

Daniel:

Modern Orthodoxy is very appealing. Have you read some Wyschogrod? Boyarin? Great stuff.

I think it is possible you are still trapped in a rationalist way of thinking, not embracing the mystery. There seems something formulaic: the proofs of Yeshua’s deity no longer convince me, therefore I reject Yeshua’s deity, therefore Modern Orthodoxy plus Yeshua as (non-divine) Messiah may be a home for me.

That’s putting a lot of faith in a chain of reasoning (foundationalism) with one link in the chain built on another. If you have more doubt, then you will not want to act too quickly on a chain of reasoning. You will embrace mystery and say, “I am unsure and I need not commit myself to a theology.”

Now, when it comes to practice, I think you should join in with a community. If I could convince you to move to L.A. and get in with some MJ community there, I would love to try. Heck, I’d love to have you in Atlanta, though I fear I am not a formidable enough teacher to guide one as bright as you.

I respect your position as you state it and understand its appeal, but I disagree. What smells like deity and looks like deity and talks like deity is deity. I don’t need the Fourth Gospel to convince me.

Also, leaving the deity issue aside, you will find your deepest longings unsatisfied in a purely Orthodox environment. The one who took on himself the Messianic woes and curses on behalf of Israel is not honored there. And it will depress you in time. Judaism without Yeshua is not the same. It is like unrealized potential, a glory short of fulness, a faith awaiting something more but not arriving. The book of Hebrews is a great source for meditating on this.

You are a person I love dearly and want to see the best for. Blessings and peace and I hope we talk about this more.

Derek Leman

Comment on Tracing my spiritual journey by faithbasedworks

faithbasedworks — Fri, 02 Oct 2009 07:43:57 +0000

Hi Daniel,
Thanks for sharing this great post! We can see similarities, as Joey said. I was reading your post and coming to your paragraph “Away from home”, I had to go, and these words Away from home resided in my mind. I thought, this is what you deal with. This is not strange. Doesn’t Abraham experience the same? He has a divine calling and it put him to a stranger in this land. It puts him on the way. Lecha! Go, to the land which I will show you. And it resulted in a lifelong journey. He received a divine calling with a promise. And although it is working out (finally) peace in the heart with God, it gives no peace on earth. He was and we are put forward on the way. That’s a special gift! But that way doesn’t reach its end on earth. See the promise of the people of Israel. Did they reach their land of milk and honey and peace? In fact they had to work hard under the reign of Solomon and after that, the wars where going on, started between brothers. It ended in diaspora. Did Yeshua brought peace? He said I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. What I would say is we must not expect a peaceful status quo on earth, which gives us a great and lucky life with final understanding. (In the circumstances of our days.) But a journey on the way of struggle through the (spiritual) tribulation of our time. But in the end the promise will be fulfilled. We need the Messiah to clear up the things! He will bring a good end. Blessing,
Jos